Rattle can 101

[m408]

I've been out of this for a good many years now and need some basic spray can painting help. I have some Dupli-color primer and clear coat along with Tamiya colors. Questions.

1- Are they compatible?

2- If so, how many coats of primer and "wet sand" between coats? If so, what grit?

3- How many coats of color? Again wetsanding between coats?

4- Clear coat finish. I have heard about applying clear coat right after last color coat to even the surface. Also heard about waiting until last color coat is dry before clear coating. Your thoughts?

5- Using Tamiya #TS-54 as color on one model. It is a light blue metalic. I would like a bit more depth. Would a coat of flat black over the primer do it?

6- Have some Testors spray enamel. Is this compatible with the Dupli-color?

I know, lots of questions but I have seen some of you guys work and want to get as close as possible without the skills or expense of air brushing. Must be a bunch of forks out there eith the same questions but to shy to ask.

[Zoom Zoom]

1- Are they compatible?

To a degree. I've heard that people have used DC clear over Tamiya w/o problem. The primer is a bit "hot", so be careful not to drench the model with it. You will want to wetsand the primer before color. Tamiya primer is much smoother, but more $$. Tamiya clear is excellent.

2- If so, how many coats of primer and "wet sand" between coats? If so, what grit?

Enough to cover, start light and work into heavier coats. Wetsand the primer before covering it w/color, and also wet sand between coats (not every pass, but every painting session if you have to go back and reshoot primer a second/third/fourth time). Micromesh 2400-3600 grit is my preference, but you can use 600-1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper as well.

3- How many coats of color? Again wetsanding between coats?

Enough to cover, it varies depending on color-Tamiya pigments aren't very dense, you must paint lighter colors over white primer if you don't want to waste paint. Wetsand between painting sessions; as in get the color on, if it's smooth and covered well leave it alone. If it needs more paint or you need to sand out imperfections, then recoat.

4- Clear coat finish. I have heard about applying clear coat right after last color coat to even the surface. Also heard about waiting until last color coat is dry before clear coating. Your thoughts?

If using Tamiya products alone you must clear w/in one hour of the last color coat, or wait upwards of a month due to paint incompatibility that can cause cracking of the clearcoat. When in doubt, mist on a bit of clear over the color, let it dry, then wetsand and add more clear. I'm not sure about the timeframe using another brand of clear. I use Tamiya clear w/Tamiya sprays to avoid compatibility problems. I usually airbrush the first color and clearcoats, and lay the last clearcoat on straight from the can for maximum gloss.

5- Using Tamiya #TS-54 as color on one model. It is a light blue metalic. I would like a bit more depth. Would a coat of flat black over the primer do it?

I would recommend gloss black, or a gloss non-metallic blue that's darker than the metallic. Tamiya paint is best applied over the smoothest surface possible, it goes on glossy but shrinks a lot as it dries and you'll see the pattern of whatever paint is underneath it, and Tamiya is glossiest over bare plastic so if your undercoat/primer isn't as smooth as bare plastic, your paint won't be as glossy. You'll spend less time polishing later.

6- Have some Testors spray enamel. Is this compatible with the Dupli-color?

It will be fine over the primer, but I would recommend against using DC paint over the enamel. It will likely be destroyed.

Get a box of white plastic spoons at the grocery store. Test all the potential variables to see how everything works. It's a good way to learn what your paint will do before potentially harming a real model. Good luck!

[ismaelg]

Hi,

Not much to add to Bob's excellent response. But I want to share something close to the topic.

Regardless of what you use: rattle cans, airbrush, enamel, laquers or unobtanium, the key to a good paint job is NOT to move forward until the current step is as good as it can be, and making the next step virtually not needed.

HUH?

What I mean is that no step can cover for a lousy previous step. Primer will not cover mold lines or bad body work. Paint will not cover rough grainy primer, and clear will not fix blotchy paint. On the contrary, problems are usually amplified by next step. It is tempting to shoot clear or color before been ready for it, but at the end you'll end up either with a less than desirable result or doing it all over again. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

Another benefit of doing it right is that you'll end up using far less material.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

[crispy]

Boy, talk about the best answers from the best builders.

You couldn't have gotten a better response from two of the best painters in the hobby!

Chris

[MrObsessive]

Milt, here's a tip that may come in handy when trying to get rid of mold lines and whatnot. Simply sanding away the mold lines may not be enough to keep them from returning later when you start to paint. The reason for this is because plastic has a "memory" and whatever was molded onto it previously, will resurface once a solvent such as paint hits it.

Having said this, the thing to do (I learned this from Ted "Chopper" Lear............another excellent builder!) is to sand away the mold lines as you would normally do............then brush over the mold lines with some sort of liquid cement. Be it Testor's or Tenax, or whathaveyou.

The mold line will reappear because of the solvents in the glue and the memory in the plastic as I described................Once the cement has fully dried and the plastic is not soft, sand the area again with 400-600 grit sandpaper.

This time when you paint the over the mold lines or engraving, it should not reappear as you've sanded away the "memory". This will apply whether you're using enamel, or acrylic, or lacquer paint as they all have some type of solvents in them.

This beats a lot of times grinding out the plastic, and filling in with putty, etc. I just did this method yesterday with the engraving on the Magnum Wagon's chassis, and it works like a charm!

As Izzy mentioned this will go a long way to making that next step easier and getting good results in the long run.

HTH!

[m408]

1- Are they compatible?

To a degree. I've heard that people have used DC clear over Tamiya w/o problem. The primer is a bit "hot", so be careful not to drench the model with it. You will want to wetsand the primer before color. Tamiya primer is much smoother, but more $$. Tamiya clear is excellent.

2- If so, how many coats of primer and "wet sand" between coats? If so, what grit?

Enough to cover, start light and work into heavier coats. Wetsand the primer before covering it w/color, and also wet sand between coats (not every pass, but every painting session if you have to go back and reshoot primer a second/third/fourth time). Micromesh 2400-3600 grit is my preference, but you can use 600-1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper as well.

3- How many coats of color? Again wetsanding between coats?

Enough to cover, it varies depending on color-Tamiya pigments aren't very dense, you must paint lighter colors over white primer if you don't want to waste paint. Wetsand between painting sessions; as in get the color on, if it's smooth and covered well leave it alone. If it needs more paint or you need to sand out imperfections, then recoat.

4- Clear coat finish. I have heard about applying clear coat right after last color coat to even the surface. Also heard about waiting until last color coat is dry before clear coating. Your thoughts?

If using Tamiya products alone you must clear w/in one hour of the last color coat, or wait upwards of a month due to paint incompatibility that can cause cracking of the clearcoat. When in doubt, mist on a bit of clear over the color, let it dry, then wetsand and add more clear. I'm not sure about the timeframe using another brand of clear. I use Tamiya clear w/Tamiya sprays to avoid compatibility problems. I usually airbrush the first color and clearcoats, and lay the last clearcoat on straight from the can for maximum gloss.

5- Using Tamiya #TS-54 as color on one model. It is a light blue metalic. I would like a bit more depth. Would a coat of flat black over the primer do it?

I would recommend gloss black, or a gloss non-metallic blue that's darker than the metallic. Tamiya paint is best applied over the smoothest surface possible, it goes on glossy but shrinks a lot as it dries and you'll see the pattern of whatever paint is underneath it, and Tamiya is glossiest over bare plastic so if your undercoat/primer isn't as smooth as bare plastic, your paint won't be as glossy. You'll spend less time polishing later.

6- Have some Testors spray enamel. Is this compatible with the Dupli-color?

It will be fine over the primer, but I would recommend against using DC paint over the enamel. It will likely be destroyed.

Get a box of white plastic spoons at the grocery store. Test all the potential variables to see how everything works. It's a good way to learn what your paint will do before potentially harming a real model. Good luck!

Thanks Bob, got 51 spoons from the dollor store, will try some different schemes.

[m408]

Hi,

Not much to add to Bob's excellent response. But I want to share something close to the topic.

Regardless of what you use: rattle cans, airbrush, enamel, laquers or unobtanium, the key to a good paint job is NOT to move forward until the current step is as good as it can be, and making the next step virtually not needed.

HUH?

What I mean is that no step can cover for a lousy previous step. Primer will not cover mold lines or bad body work. Paint will not cover rough grainy primer, and clear will not fix blotchy paint. On the contrary, problems are usually amplified by next step. It is tempting to shoot clear or color before been ready for it, but at the end you'll end up either with a less than desirable result or doing it all over again. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt

Another benefit of doing it right is that you'll end up using far less material.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

Thanks, going back to the "good old days" when building 1:1 street rods, would shoot a coat of primer, drive the car for a week, wet sand, shoot another coat, drive wet sand etc again, repeat as required. Sounds like the same holds true for plastic models.

[m408]

Milt, here's a tip that may come in handy when trying to get rid of mold lines and whatnot. Simply sanding away the mold lines may not be enough to keep them from returning later when you start to paint. The reason for this is because plastic has a "memory" and whatever was molded onto it previously, will resurface once a solvent such as paint hits it.

Having said this, the thing to do (I learned this from Ted "Chopper" Lear............another excellent builder!) is to sand away the mold lines as you would normally do............then brush over the mold lines with some sort of liquid cement. Be it Testor's or Tenax, or whathaveyou.

The mold line will reappear because of the solvents in the glue and the memory in the plastic as I described................Once the cement has fully dried and the plastic is not soft, sand the area again with 400-600 grit sandpaper.

This time when you paint the over the mold lines or engraving, it should not reappear as you've sanded away the "memory". This will apply whether you're using enamel, or acrylic, or lacquer paint as they all have some type of solvents in them.

This beats a lot of times grinding out the plastic, and filling in with putty, etc. I just did this method yesterday with the engraving on the Magnum Wagon's chassis, and it works like a charm!

As Izzy mentioned this will go a long way to making that next step easier and getting good results in the long run.

HTH!

Great tip, thanks.

[m408]

Many thanks to all of you. I don't expect my models to ever be show quality but I know that now, they will be a little bit better. Hehe...my friends already think that I'm a bloody artist with my models (little do they know) wait until they see my new paint jobs.

[bobss396]

Great advice from everyone here. My two cents on the ghosting problem is, the more you disturb the plastic under them, the worse the "memory" will be in the remaining plastic. In other words, just don't hack off trim with a dull xacto blade, use some finesse and take your time with it. I try to take trim off in a long of a piece as possible, not going the full depth in one shot for big pieces.

I also use light coats of primer, sand and prime a few times until it goes away. If you are using lacquer paints, use a GOOD primer that will withstand the lacquer and go easy on the color coats as too many solvents may cause "exorcised" ghosts to reappear, sometimes months after the paint job is done.

Bob