DEBATE! Is 2K clear coat worth the health risk.

[Mrdarkmonkey96]

rules:

please refrain from innaproprite vocabulary.

keep discussion topic related.

no personal insults or attacks

ready, set, go!!

[mistermodel]

whish I knew what you were talking about

[Chief Joseph]

I don't really understand the phrasing of your question... if you take the proper safety precautions there is very little risk in using catalyzed clear. If you do not know the safety precautions to take, or you ignore them, then it's a pretty dumb idea to use a catalyzed clear. Maybe you should ask something like, "Is 2K clear worth the hassle?" or "Is 2K clear worth the extra precautions?" I'd have to say yes, it can be worth the hassle, but definitely not if you are going to risk your health when using it.

[Mike Kucaba]

What risk? Proper ventilation, a respirator etc. Personally I still use clear lacquer and feel that 2K clear is not accurate on replica stock. It does look good though

[martinfan5]

What risk? Proper ventilation, a respirator etc. Personally I still use clear lacquer and feel that 2K clear is not accurate on replica stock. It does look good though

I think Mike nailed it, more so on the last part

[mikemodeler]

I will agree with Joseph and Mike on this- if you follow directions and take proper safety precautions, then there is nothing to worry about. That being said, what is the advantage cost and results wise using it over regular hobby spray clears?

Many members here use automotive grade paints and clears and while I don't, I do know that they typically are handled differently than our regular hobby paints. I would think all of the extra work involved might not be worth it unless you are clearing multiple bodies at the same time.

[Ace-Garageguy]

I don't really understand the phrasing of your question... if you take the proper safety precautions there is very little risk in using catalyzed clear. If you do not know the safety precautions to take, or you ignore them, then it's a pretty dumb idea to use a catalyzed clear. Maybe you should ask something like, ........"Is 2K clear worth the hassle?" or "Is 2K clear worth the extra precautions?"........... I'd have to say yes, it can be worth the hassle, but definitely not if you are going to risk your health when using it.

The Chief nailed it. It CAN be worth the hassle, and there's close to zero health risk IF you use the CORRECT respirator, rubber gloves and a long sleeve shirt (some of the ingredients are readily absorbed into skin)...and have adequate ventilation. I've been using it on 1:1s for many many years and have no health issues as a result. There IS the problem of the spray mist getting into the local atmosphere if you don't have a booth with exhaust filtration. The moral issues involved with that are for you to decide on.

[sjordan2]

What is 2K catalyzed clear? What's unique about it? How does it differ from other clear coats? I've been on this and other modeling forums for several years and never heard of it.

[Mrdarkmonkey96]

sorry guys!! i posted from my phone and the first half didnt publish.

what i meant to say was is the hassle of mixing the clear worth it, and is the the expense of buying the proper safety gear. and even with a long sleeve shirt the paint can still get into your system. you should wear a paint suit and goggles. plus the isocynates in the paint are very very dangerous, and you cant smell them unlike lacquer and enamel

[Harry P.]

sorry guys!! i posted from my phone and the first half didnt publish.

what i meant to say was is the hassle of mixing the clear worth it, and is the the expense of buying the proper safety gear. and even with a long sleeve shirt the paint can still get into your system. you should wear a paint suit and goggles. plus the isocynates in the paint are very very dangerous, and you cant smell them unlike lacquer and enamel

So if this stuff is that nasty, that much more involved to use, that much more expensive (I'm guessing) than regular hobby clears, the obvious question would be why bother with it in the first place? There are so many different types of hobby clears available that give excellent results. To make so much extra work and hassle for yourself with no real advantages is beyond me. I can see this stuff being used on real cars, but it seems a lot like overkill for a model.

[Quick GMC]

So if this stuff is that nasty, that much more involved to use, that much more expensive (I'm guessing) than regular hobby clears, the obvious question would be why bother with it in the first place? There are so many different types of hobby clears available that give excellent results. To make so much extra work and hassle for yourself with no real advantages is beyond me. I can see this stuff being used on real cars, but it seems a lot like overkill for a model.

It's not that big of a deal, I don't understand why OP tried to make a huge thing about it. respiratory protection isn't that expensive. If you're that sensitive to the 2k, you should be wearing protection for everything else anyway.

[Ace-Garageguy]

What is 2K catalyzed clear? What's unique about it? How does it differ from other clear coats? I've been on this and other modeling forums for several years and never heard of it.

In general, it's a "two-component", hence cutesy "2K", urethane, acrylic enamel or epoxy clearcoat or colored paint product made for 1:1 vehicles and aircraft. Catalyzed acrylic-urethane is the most common on cars, and the catalyst is related chemically to super glue. You don't want it in your lungs, because it stays there.

The current generation is high-solids, low VOC, and typically requires only 2-3 coats on a 1:1 application, and that leaves plenty so wetsand and buff (if it's shot slick). It dries hard and will take a high gloss, flows out well, covers well, and has good UV and chemical resistance. It's probably extreme overkill on a 1/24 or 1/25 model.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[Harry P.]

It's probably extreme overkill on a 1/24 or 1/25 model.

Sure is.

[Ace-Garageguy]

sorry guys!! i posted from my phone and the first half didnt publish.

what i meant to say was is the hassle of mixing the clear worth it, and is the the expense of buying the proper safety gear. and even with a long sleeve shirt the paint can still get into your system. you should wear a paint suit and goggles. plus the isocynates in the paint are very very dangerous, and you cant smell them unlike lacquer and enamel

A good 3M organic vapor respirator is about $30. Maintain it correctly and it will last for a very long time doing models. A Tyvek paint suit is less than $20, and will also last just about forever. You can get latex gloves for $6 for 50 of them for hand protection, or you can buy the more expensive heavy latex, neoprene, etc. If you REALLY care about your long-term health, you should use a respirator (not a paper mask) and gloves WHATEVER you paint with.

And you WILL smell the paint if your mask isn't fitted or working correctly, and if you can smell it, the isocyanates are getting in your lungs. Almost ALL pro painters who have any brains at all now use filtered-air-supplied full-face masks and hoods.

It is also difficult to mix ACCURATELY in very small quantities, and because it relies on chemical crosslinking to cure properly, accurate measurement of the components is very important.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[sjordan2]

So...this requires a hazmat suit...for building a MODEL CAR???

[Harry P.]

So...this requires a hazmat suit...for building a MODEL CAR???

Hence the previous "overkill" comments...

[JM485]

I'll start off by saying that I have a very limited knowledge of these clears, I only know what I have read here and a few other places online. From what I have read it can be very dangerous if you do not protect yourself completely from it, skin included. That said, for me, I don't really think it is an option since I paint in my garage with the large door open for ventilation. The last thing I would want is to have fumes creep through the garage door and expose anyone in my house to harmful vapors. I guess I would say it is not worth it for me, but others with a different setup make it work very well, so I can't speak directly whether anyone should use it or not.

[Harry P.]

The only way that I can possibly see this stuff being "worth it" is if you are a professional painter and you already have access to all the hazmat gear, spray booth, etc. There's no way I could justify going through the process necessary to use this stuff safely just for use on a model kit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The only way that I can possibly see this stuff being "worth it" is if you are a professional painter and you already have access to all the hazmat gear, spray booth, etc. There's no way I could justify going through the process necessary to use this stuff safely just for use on a model kit.

Exactly. And even then, the only justification I can honestly see for it would be a on very large scale (1/8) model that's going to travel to shows, or a presentation model that will get handled a lot.

Smaller scale models finished with it often end up with the dipped-in-syrup look, too.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy

[sjordan2]

Since nobody would actually define what this stuff is, I looked it up. For the the mentally challenged among us like me, it's commonly known to us civilians as urethane.

Edited July 13, 2013 by sjordan2

[Ace-Garageguy]

Since nobody would actually define what this stuff is, I looked it up. For the the mentally challenged among us like me, it's commonly known to us civilians as urethane.

I defined it in post 12. 2K can refer to ANY two-component (uses a catalyst or hardener) paint product with any chemistry...urethane, enamel or epoxy...though the most common usage refers to urethanes, as you say.

[Harry P.]

Since nobody would actually define what this stuff is, I looked it up. For the the mentally challenged among us like me, it's commonly known to us civilians as urethane.

Actually, Bill spelled it out in post 12.

[martinfan5]

If you like syrup on your models, then its worth it

[Chief Joseph]

I like syrup on my pancakes. And a big dollop of softened butter, too. I think a nicely polished lacquer color coat has the best "in scale" appearance on model, but I've seen carefully-applied 2K clear jobs that look really good, too. I suppose the trick is getting it thin enough to flow without building up the thickness to an unacceptable level. The level of solids in the particular clear will play a part in how thick it ends up on the model, so possibly a cheaper, low-solids brand is better for models than an expensive, high-solds brand. I'm talking from non-experience here, because I've never had a safe enough place to spray a 2-pack.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Chief Joseph

[Psychographic]

There really is no more effort to mix urethane clear than enamel or lacquer.

Urethane- mix clear with hardener/activator

Lacquer- mix clear with thinner

Enamel- mix clear with reducer

I don't see any more work with any of them.

Syrup,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, really? Do these look like syrup?

The benefit of the urethane, it won't yellow and it cures faster than lacquer or enamel.

I also think it's cheaper to use. I can buy a quart of house brand urethane from my local supply house for about $40. A 1 1/4 ounce of lacquer from the LHS $4, if my math is correct, that puts the hobby lacquer at about $160 a quart. The only lacquer clear for automotive use I can find locally is a Qt. of pre-thinned Duplicolor at about $25. I honestly don't like it, after a few days you can push your fingernail into it and leave a mark. To me that means it's not ready to be sanded and polished. With the urethane, I can sand and buff the next day. If your really in a hurry, there are urethanes tha can be sanded and polished in 90 minutes.

As for the health issues, you should be protecting your self no matter what you spray.