Tom Geiger Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 The term "suicide" front end derives from the fact that more than a few of the poorly-welded, poorly-engineered, overhung, transverse straight front-axle spring perches (that got the car down really low for the 'look') broke off, with predictable disastrous, sometimes fatal consequences. Agreed. I do like the look and idea behind the cars, but I don't want to die in one. For me, having a 'traditional rod' is freedom to drive it around without fear of getting it dirty or wet. And not having to clean and polish it all the time. I hate doing that! I want something that will start every time, and cruise around comfortably without incident. A few years ago I found a Shay Model A convertible pickup for sale in NJ. It had been sitting outside and had it's own patina going, as best it could for a fiberglass car. It only had 10,000 miles on it, and ran well. I would have bought it if the owner wasn't hell bent on getting full eBay mint truck value out of it. That would have been cool to cruise around in, with modern drivetrain. The truth is that we are all taking a bit of a risk driving any collector car. There was a video that the insurance institute did for their 50th anniversary of a new 1999 Malibu doing a head on crash with a 1959 full size Chevy. In short, the dummies inside the Malibu survived and the ones in the '59 didn't. None of the old cars we love will protect us in a crash like a modern car. And the cars of the 1920s and 1930s were built before today's highways and speeds were even conceived! The old wood framed bodies will just disintegrate upon impact, whether it's mechanical failure from a crummy weld or some mindless person in a modern car hitting them. Be careful out there!
1930fordpickup Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 All fine and dandy. And IF IT'S BEING DRIVEN, IT NEEDS TO BE STRUCTURALLY SOUND AND FUNCTIONALLY SAFE. Not wimpy mommy-van airbag-safe, but with reasonable and correct function of steering, suspension, brakes and lighting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- History repeats itself...especially if you don't bother to know any of it. One of the MAIN reasons the NHRA was founded back in the early post-war hot-rod boom days was to try to foster safe construction and operation of hot-rods, which had a pretty bad name in the press and among the general public. The term "suicide" front end derives from the fact that more than a few of the poorly-welded, poorly-engineered, overhung, transverse straight front-axle spring perches (that got the car down really low for the 'look') broke off, with predictable disastrous, sometimes fatal consequences. It was also popular among the tail-dagger set, the ones who didn't know any better, to use very long shackles to lower the rear of a transverse-sprung car (like a '40-'48 Ford, etc.). It looks cool sitting still, but entirely destroys any hope of maintaining directional stability during cornering. Again, a lot of promising young people met un-necessary deaths because of a trend, fad, getting the 'look'. Knowing how things work and what's safe, when your life, and others, depends on them, is simply part of being a responsible human being. It needs to be an integral part of "self expression" when that expression involves machinery. Bill what you have said is spot on. But I never said it did not need to be safe. I am all for safe cars going down the road. I do not think unsafe rods are a good thing. I did say I like the style . I also do not think that every car needs to be polished out top to bottom to be cool or safe . Do not forget before every polished car is painted they are in bare metal.
crazyrichard Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 actually ......i'm done here lol , at this point its useless to continue this conversation , all sides said it all and then .... a person like chuck comes along and to be hounest , thats to complicated for me i'm just a simple person .. and if the discussion go's to such a deep level , i feel i have nothing to contribute anymore , i guess i'm to dumb to be able to speak at that level.. to bad i was finally able to participate in a conversation .. and again à feel overpowered by smart comments
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 24, 2013 Posted November 24, 2013 . ..Odds are the guy in the clapped-out '97 Maxima will be the guy who kills or injures you in traffic because something on his car failed... Entirely true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect cars built and driven by enthusiasts, car-guys, gearheads, hot-rodders, etc. to be SAFER, mechanically, than poorly-maintained vehicles driven by the car-ignorant masses.
zenrat Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 ...There was a video that the insurance institute did for their 50th anniversary of a new 1999 Malibu doing a head on crash with a 1959 full size Chevy. In short, the dummies inside the Malibu survived and the ones in the '59 didn't.... I like to think they dressed one set of dummies up in car club jackets, jeans, Ray Bans & Elvis wigs & the other in suit & tie. But I doubt it. When you attract attention by subverting the dominant paradigm said paradigm is modified by the subversion. The result is that for the next individual to attract an equivalent measure of attention they must push the boundaries a little further. And a little fiurther. And a little further. Eventually the new paradigm is so far removed from that which was originally dominant that reversion to the old will be as shocking as the first subversion.
FASTBACK340 Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 (edited) Entirely true, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect cars built and driven by enthusiasts, car-guys, gearheads, hot-rodders, etc. to be SAFER, mechanically, than poorly-maintained vehicles driven by the car-ignorant masses. I drive a `99 Maxima with 125K on the clock. That car is safer than most of the junk on the road, Rod or otherwise. A car that is poorly maintained is one thing. Deliberately building a "contraption" such as what has been described is like attending Julliard on a music scholarship and then becoming a rapper.... Why? Worn w/Patina is one thing, but building a deliberate "Frankenstien" now takes automotive expression into the Donk or Monster Trunk cartoon realm. More vehicles I wouldn't want to share the road with. Imagine having one of those drive over your car because he couldn't see you? Edited November 25, 2013 by FASTBACK340
David G. Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 Yup, after nearly 70 years, the Rat Rod Craze is officially over. Those of you who don't like them can go about your business. There's nothing more to see here. Move along now, move along. David G.
Dr. Cranky Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I think we are all grown up now. I am delighted this thread has lasted this long and everyone has behaved. It must be a good sign. LOL.
Tom Geiger Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 I think we are all grown up now. I am delighted this thread has lasted this long and everyone has behaved. It must be a good sign. LOL. Not so fast... I'm finishing up my 'traditional rod' Model A pickup this week.. I'm sure someone will dislike it!
Dr. Cranky Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 LOL, Tom, I haven't seen it and I can tell you I don't like it because I don't know what "traditional" rod is.
Foxer Posted November 25, 2013 Posted November 25, 2013 What I liked about growing up in the fifties was everyone knew what a hot rod (no caps!) was and that rarely included fenders (well, cycle excluded)
Harry P. Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 What I liked about growing up in the fifties... Did you know Fonzie?
Tom Geiger Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 Did you know Fonzie? Yes! He's the old guy pushing reverse mortgages on aging seniors on TV!
jbwelda Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 I personally am glad the "concerned mother" brigade is keeping us all "safe". That's what I want out of life: to be "safe". I think next we should ban X Acto blades. One can cut themselves (or others) very badly with one of those. Truly not "safe" and not that far from an assault weapon truth be known. Rat rods are the true spirit of hot rods: fast, dangerous, driven by irresponsible social rejects usually on drugs or worse. Did I mention poorly constructed? You don't like "rat rods", you don't really like hot rods. Now the nowadays rat rod poseurs, they are worthy of ridicule, but not the down and dirty, did it because its what I had laying around, deathtraps. One rare case where $ expended probably is in inverse relation to kool factor. And if it runs into you or yours on the road through driving or mechanical failure...well, you just shoulda steered out of the way faster! like that kid on the insurance ad who came careening through the fence and over the lawn coming to rest next to the spokesman said: Sup. Thank you. one love jb
Jantrix Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 I think this debate has run it's course. Neither side can see the other because they are such polar opposites. Art before function or function before art. There really is no middle ground to be had, so further debate is pointless.
Dr. Cranky Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 From the point of view of a builder who likes to try new things, it was building the first couple of rat rods that took me back to see what military builders in Europe were doing to weather their builds and this is how we came across a whole bunch of wonderful new techniques in painting like chipping, mapping, salting, hair spray, color modulation, etc . . . .I feel like the rat rod has been a great way to try out new techniques in order to become a better builder.
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) I personally am glad the "concerned mother" brigade is keeping us all "safe". That's what I want out of life: to be "safe". I think next we should ban X Acto blades. One can cut themselves (or others) very badly with one of those. Truly not "safe" and not that far from an assault weapon truth be known. Rat rods are the true spirit of hot rods: fast, dangerous, driven by irresponsible social rejects usually on drugs or worse. Did I mention poorly constructed? You don't like "rat rods", you don't really like hot rods. Now the nowadays rat rod poseurs, they are worthy of ridicule, but not the down and dirty, did it because its what I had laying around, deathtraps. One rare case where $ expended probably is in inverse relation to kool factor. And if it runs into you or yours on the road through driving or mechanical failure...well, you just shoulda steered out of the way faster! like that kid on the insurance ad who came careening through the fence and over the lawn coming to rest next to the spokesman said: Sup. Thank you. one love jb This is a joke, right? "Rat rods are the true spirit of hot rods: fast, dangerous, driven by irresponsible social rejects usually on drugs or worse. Did I mention poorly constructed? You don't like "rat rods", you don't really like hot rods." No REAL hot-rodder, who actually BUILDS 1:1 cars, can actually believe this. Joke, right?? PS. You wanna see one man who DID embody the "true spirit of hot-rods"? Mickey Thompson. Edited November 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
jbwelda Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 no bling billet trustafarian baby with money to throw away would ever believe it, no. but the poor boys know better. thanks again
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) Here's a link to almost 1800 pages of photos of drag-racing cars in motion...cars that, in a LOT of cases, especially in the early days, were built out of junk and very little money. Cars that were built out of junk, and were fast and safe. Fast safe cars built from junk, whose owner/ builders weren't "bad dude" poseurs, but who put their money where their mouths were and raced their creations. Real nads, backed up with real skills. No BS. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228509 This is the REAL spirit of hot-rodding. Edited November 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Casey Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 While the Rat Rod craze may or may not be far from "over", this topic is, before it deteriorates any further.
jaymcminn Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 I'm not so sure about the "safe" part. Love that little MG, though. These cars beat any of those cheesy modern "rats" hands down!
Bernard Kron Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 I've had that H.A.M.B. thread bookmarked for some time now, and I often go to it for a little pick-me-up! I was looking for NitroNeils' recreation of the iconic "Determination" photo. Still one of my all time favorite drag-,moments-in-scale builds! A beautiful model of an exciting car just barely under control...
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 (edited) I'm not so sure about the "safe" part. Love that little MG, though. These cars beat any of those cheesy modern "rats" hands down! "Safe" is a relative term, but here take it to mean "they go where you point them, they stop when you want to stop, parts don't fall off, and they don't have jagged edges just to be cool". Edited November 26, 2013 by Ace-Garageguy
Ace-Garageguy Posted November 26, 2013 Posted November 26, 2013 Love that A-Bone Love your "Determination", Neil.
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