lacquer dos and donts... help please

[ratchetman87]

Ok so ive been building models for about 7 years now and have always used enamel or acrylic paints. Im curious about lacquers or at least thinning my enamels with lacquer as ive heard it reduces drying time, however i am unsure of the prep process and whats safe to do and whats not. Id hate to throw a pile of melted plastic away that used to be a model cause i missed a step in the prep work. Any guidance would be heavily appreciated.

Thanks,

Jeff

[modeling bill]

here is what I use for thinning enamel

mix 2 parts paint to 1 part lacquer

use the cheap lacquer thinner from hardware store. Do not use automotive grade thinner it is to "HOT" and will cause the plastic to melt.

this works for me hope it helps you.

[Mike Kucaba]

I use automotive grade thinner all the time. PPG DTL 105 and 876. Use the cheap stuff to clean out your AB. You should prime with a lacquer base primer, I'll leave that type up to you. People here use Dupli-color Plasti-kote etc. there are lots of them.

[Roncla]

I've always thinned my enamels, acrylics and lacquers with Tamiyas' plastic friendly Lacquer thinner.

Its also a great paint remover as it works like regular lacquer thinners but isn't Hot so wont damage the plastic.

I do all my cleanup with the regular cheap lacquer thinners from the local hardware/ auto parts store.

http://www.tamiyausa.com/items/paints-finishes-60/tamiya-maintenance-material-62000/lacquer-thinner-250ml-87077

[ratchetman87]

Cool thanks guys, do i need to use a sealer at all before priming or will the primer act as the sealer to?

[Roncla]

I always just spray the primer on to a piece of the sprue from the kit then spray the paint i'm using and look for any adverse reaction.

I'd only use a sealer if the plastic showed signs of the paint ' biting ' in to it.

[ratchetman87]

Thats a pretty good idea thanks ron. Didnt even think about spraying the sprue.

[my80malibu]

Automotive Laquers come in three grades. Low, Med, & Hot. Printed on the can you will see temperature ranges recommended for useing the product. The cheap hardware stuff is generally around the low range.

If you are going to use Automotive paint for models, you would want the Low,or Medium temp Reducer/thinner, for the brand of paint you are using, or its Equivalent brand. The paint supplier will know what works, and doesn't work in most cases.

If you are working with resin. You can use any one of the three temps, resin is more resistant to hot laquer paints.

Edited January 5, 2014 by my80malibu

[ratchetman87]

Im kind of leary with lacquers because i tried using lacuer thinner to remove paint from a set of wheels and it started to melt the details away. Luckily i was able to find a replacement set, but you can understand my nervousness after that experience. I think it was becauseit was straight thinner. Maybe ill just have to take the dive and start experimenting to really get the handle on it. Ive got plenty of sprue and information ( thank you all) to work with... hopefully

[Modelmartin]

I have been painting models with automotive lacquer for 35 years now. I have more problems with model paint than automotive paint!

One poster talked about low, med, hot "grades" of thinner. Those are temp ranges and how long it takes the lacquer to dry. Hot is best because it allows time for the paint to flow out smoothly.

Use a good quality automotive primer first. I won't use the Tamiya primer under any automotive paint. The Tamiya paint is pretty mild and the automotive lacquers will dissolve it. Use automotive paint from top to bottom - primer, color, clear. I much prefer airbrushing it. The canned lacquers have more volatile components in them to keep them sprayable and are hotter. When I decant from a spray can and then airbrush many of the hotter elements flash off before hitting the surface.

Obviously using lacquer thinner on plastic for stripping is bad as you found out. Lacquer thinner is a pretty strong solvent. You could use it as a glue to join pieces of plastic!!

Experiment on scrap parts or plastic spoons first if you are unsure about something. After you get used to using automotive paint you will wonder why you wasted so much time and money on model paints!

Also, I can not recommend strongly enough to use an airbrush for all of your painting. It will be the best investment you have made in model building equipment. Get a single action good quality with different size tips. I prefer Paasche H.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Modelmartin

[Art Anderson]

I have been painting models with automotive lacquer for 35 years now. I have more problems with model paint than automotive paint!

One poster talked about low, med, hot "grades" of thinner. Those are temp ranges and how long it takes the lacquer to dry. Hot is best because it allows time for the paint to flow out smoothly.

Use a good quality automotive primer first. I won't use the Tamiya primer under any automotive paint. The Tamiya paint is pretty mild and the automotive lacquers will dissolve it. Use automotive paint from top to bottom - primer, color, clear. I much prefer airbrushing it. The canned lacquers have more volatile components in them to keep them sprayable and are hotter. When I decant from a spray can and then airbrush many of the hotter elements flash off before hitting the surface.

Obviously using lacquer thinner on plastic for stripping is bad as you found out. Lacquer thinner is a pretty strong solvent. You could use it as a glue to join pieces of plastic!!

Experiment on scrap parts or plastic spoons first if you are unsure about something. After you get used to using automotive paint you will wonder why you wasted so much time and money on model paints!

Also, I can not recommend strongly enough to use an airbrush for all of your painting. It will be the best investment you have made in model building equipment. Get a single action good quality with different size tips. I prefer Paasche H.

Andy's on this pretty good, IMO. Like him, I've been using automotive lacquers since the middle 1960's, and here's what I use: A good grade of automotive lacquer primer, followed by the lacquer color coats, every coat being laid down with a Paasche H-series airbrush. For thinning, I settled on low temperature lacquer thinner--preferably "50-degree" (meaning that it's meant to dry at 50F ambient air temperature--at ordinary shirt-sleeve room temperature, it will dry quicker, which is good for model work). As for how much thinner to use, frankly, IMO "formula's" are for the birds here--rather, mix lacquers and lacquer thinners to the consistency of 2% milk (this visual mix works just as well for enamels thinned with lacquer thinners in my experience). With the primer, do exactly the same thing, and AIRBRUSH the primer! Why go to all the work to get a nice paintjob and then "firehose" lacquer primer on the model first?

I airbrush primer on a body shell lightly at first--just enough that the thinner might "frost" the surface of the plastic only slightly. Once that has dried for just a few minutes, I can repeat the passes with the primer, and find that by the end of the second round, no more frosting (actually very slight crazing) goes away, and the solids in the primer will fill that. I use just enough primer to get to that point and then stop. Before I lay on color coats, I simply polish the primer with a piece of 8000-grit polishing cloth first. That way, I get smooth color coats from the get-go.

Color I airbrush on all at one sitting, with lacquer thinned as I describe above, but using the lowest pressure I can get away with, opening up my airbrush for a decent "fan" or pattern of about 3/4 inch with the airbrush about an inch from the surface. Now, I have to move the airbrush along a bit quickly to avoid any puddling of the paint, but that is a technique that is easily learned with a bit of practice. I just keep making passes around the model, sides, ends and upper surfaces (as well as the bottom edges and in the window areas) until I get full color buildup, and if I've done it right, the way I always do, I get a paint job that will be smooth, somewhat shiny, needing only a flannel polishing cloth and polishing compound to rub out to a high shine.

Unless I am using a metallic paint, I almost never use clear over color, as I don't like burying any raised details if I can help it--why pay for a nice model, then bury all that under paint so thick it can't be seen nor foiled? Clear, of course is almost a requirement over metallic lacquers, as any serious polishing will alter the shade of color, as the carrier gets polished off the metallic powder.

Art Anderson

(Norbie approves of this posting)

[ratchetman87]

Thanks guys. I actually use a dual action badger myself. I also decant a lot of paints into the airbrush so that ill have more control over the pressure and pattern being sprayed. Im just unsure about using lacquers in general because of the lack of experience with them. You fellas seem very knowledgeable on the subject and i really do appreciate the advice youve all given me. Im a machinist by profession and a painter by hobby so i know very little about what paints are safe to use with what thinners and how the overall process of preparing the work piece changes from using the different kinds of paints. Testors and model master enamels are all ive ever shot through my airbrush. Acrylics were used when i was a teenager so the cleanup would be easier. Now i want to start dabbling with lacquers because of the high quality finishes ive seen produced by both lacquers and some very talented people who know how to use them.

[ratchetman87]

Ok i cant thank you guys enough. Heres a photo of my 1960 impala dressed in duplicolors sandable primer. Decanted it into my airbrush and sprayed it about 12 in. away from the shel. Gave it 3 dry coats that barely covered the surface. By the 3rd coat i had full coverage. I did one last slightly heavier coat to get thick enough coverage so that i can block sand and fill any major low spots if necessary. Then ill shoot 1 last coat of primer, sand it, and shoot the gold base coat and top that with either stop light red or a darker hue of green.... any thoughts, comments? Feel free to share all criticism and advice is appreciated.

[disabled modeler]

If rebuilding an old build up...make sure you never spray a Lacquer over an Enamel...very bad things can happen to the plastic.

[BIG NICKY]

I'm spraying a duplicolor lacquer clear and primer....I was wondering if anyone else has an issue with what looks like cob webs floating all over the place once you start spraying... both are from a can that is pre thinned

[Mike Kucaba]

Thin your paint some more and try adjusting the air pressure.