Harry P. Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 It's a great build as ever Harry - but why are you using the (smaller and less powerful engine) from a Mercer raceabout in a Stutz? I hope this isn't a silly question and I certainly don't want to give offence! just interested.. -Don. No offense taken, Don. That's a good question. Yes, I initially said I would be using the Mercer engine. But I've been thinking about that. What I have is an Aurora 1914 Stutz curbside kit (the main kit of this project), and two possible engine donor sources: a Lindberg 1914 Stutz racer with a very basic and poorly detailed Stutz engine, and a Fuman 1913 Mercer with a very well detailed Mercer engine. My choice is... A: use the Lindberg Stutz engine and make it acceptable by adding a lot of detail that's not there, or... B: Use the very well detailed engine in the Mercer kit that looks a lot like a Stutz engine and "Stutz-ify" it. I haven't decided yet which is the better way to go. I'll take any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Looks like another silk purse out of a sows ear in the works. Actually, apart from the fact that it lacks an engine, the Aurora kit is pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I don't Skip would mind if you used the less accurate but more detailed Mercer and I'd build it that way. By your track record (pun intended) you're gonna reinvent the wheel (pi again) with all the detail you're slathering on this thing-build the simpler to assemble highly detailed Mercer instead of going nuts to correct it to Stutz. Besides, maybe only Skip would know the difference between the Stutz and Mercer 'plants...it won't detract from the excellence you make of this. My .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramfins59 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 As a lot of people have already said...... this is going to be fun and educational to watch. GO HARRY...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 I don't Skip would mind if you used the less accurate but more detailed Mercer and I'd build it that way. By your track record (pun intended) you're gonna reinvent the wheel (pi again) with all the detail you're slathering on this thing-build the simpler to assemble highly detailed Mercer instead of going nuts to correct it to Stutz. Besides, maybe only Skip would know the difference between the Stutz and Mercer 'plants...it won't detract from the excellence you make of this. My .02. I agree, only an expert would see the differences between the Stutz and Mercer engines. To the average observer they look almost identical (or at least very similar). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1ford48 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 the real Stutz has a Wisconsin T Head engine. same style as the Mercer. because of the scale on the Mercer [slightly bigger in all respects] it should be just fine. you could probably get away with just changing the intake and exhaust manifolds. I assume you will use the wheels and tires from the Mercer as well-they are much nicer. I am excited about this build and would like to complement you on your SUPERB work. FS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I assume you will use the wheels and tires from the Mercer as well-they are much nicer. Looking at the Aurora Stutz wheels/tires and the Fuman Mercer wheels/tires side by side, the Aurora wheels are actually more crisply molded than the Fuman wheels. The Fuman tires are nicer, but the Aurora tires have a tread pattern that I see on my Stutz reference photos, the Fuman tires are different. So I'll stick with the Aurora Stutz wheels/tires. Interestingly, in almost every reference photo I have, the front wheels of the Stutz have 10 spokes, the rears 12. But the Aurora Stutz (and the Fuman Mercer and Lindberg Stutz) have 12 spokes front and back. I know... stuff like this is all way too much "inside baseball" for most forum members... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Another watch-worthy thread unfolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 At 1/16 it'll be a great candidate for one of your leather button tufted interiors(seats). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 At 1/16 it'll be a great candidate for one of your leather button tufted interiors(seats). These models aren't as big as you think. The seat cushions are only an inch wide. Which means 16 inches wide in real life. Which means that a lot of "today-sized" people would have a hard time fitting into one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) The Mercer Raceabout wheels tend to be more shaped/sculpted than Stutz wheels and seem more like they came from a circus wagon. BTW, Stutz also offered optional wire wheels.The Lindberg racing engine, as Harry said, is essentially a nearly unidentifiable lump, while the basic design of the Mercer engine more closely resembles the road-going Stutz than anything else in this scale.PS: As Frank mentioned above, the equivalent Mercer had a T-head engine (Porter-designed); the Bearcat also had a T-head but (according to the publishers of SuperCars magazine) "Stutz did not make their own engines for the Bearcat but bought powerplants from the Wisconsin company. A T-head four-cylinder was used: in other words, the inlet valves were on one side of the block and the exhausts on the other. Displacement was 6388 cc and power output was 60 bhp @ 1500 rpm." The Mercer T-head displacement was 5069 cc with power output of 56 bhp @ 1900 rpm. So, there will be a slight difference in size but I think Frank's suggestions will make it barely noticeable. Of course, Harry probably has it all figured out. Edited February 7, 2014 by sjordan2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Looking at the Aurora Stutz wheels/tires and the Fuman Mercer wheels/tires side by side, the Aurora wheels are actually more crisply molded than the Fuman wheels. The Fuman tires are nicer, but the Aurora tires have a tread pattern that I see on my Stutz reference photos, the Fuman tires are different. So I'll stick with the Aurora Stutz wheels/tires. Interestingly, in almost every reference photo I have, the front wheels of the Stutz have 10 spokes, the rears 12. But the Aurora Stutz (and the Fuman Mercer and Lindberg Stutz) have 12 spokes front and back. I know... stuff like this is all way too much "inside baseball" for most forum members... I don't have dimensions on the wheels, but the only reason to suspect that the rear wheels might be somewhat larger is to accommodate the 16" drum brakes (the only brakes on the car). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 ok... I've made my decision. I'm going with the engine in the Lindberg Stutz racer kit. While the Fuman Mercer engine looks similar, generally, to the Stutz engine, there are some big differences. Four port exhaust vs. two port exhaust, cylinder heads are differently shaped, etc. Besides... I want to see if I can take the extremely simplified Lindberg Stutz engine and turn it into something a little more realistic. It's more of a challenge to take a nondescript lump of plastic and turn it into a reasonable scale replica than to just assemble the very detailed Fuman Mercer engine. But remember... this is no contest model. I'm going to give the engine a reasonable amount of detail, but I'm not going to go nuts with detail. Anyway... the Lindberg engine is comprised of only a few pieces. The whole block, cylinder heads, water pipe, valve springs, etc. are all molded together as a single left half-right half two piece assembly. Once I glued the two engine halves together, the first step is to cut it apart! Why? Because the engine will be easier to detail if the major components are separate. I began by separating a few major components using my trusty razor saw: The Stutz engine's cylinder heads are painted a bright green, while the rest of the block is steel. It's easier to paint the heads and block if they are separate, so again the razor saw made quick work of separating the heads from the block: Now that I have the block as a separate unit, it's easier to deal with it. These four tabs are to mount the engine on the Lindberg chassis; the Aurora chassis is different (and more accurate), so the Lindberg mounts have to go. I'll grind them off with my Dremel: And in this last photo you can see that I have begun to add some external details that are missing from the Lindberg engine., using various styrene shapes including hex-shaped rod to make bolt heads, styrene tubing and sheet, etc. Lots more to come on the engine... I'm just getting started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Good Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 New motor mounts made of square styrene rod to mate the Lindberg block to the Aurora frame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1ford48 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I am still laughing at Skips comment! but way to go Harry-after looking at the wheels from Aurora kit I agree with you! heres some pics of the lindberg engine a guy did here in California a few years back . one thing I thought he got right was the green color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 I think he did a very nice job on that engine. I plan to detail mine to about the same level. Nothing crazy, not every last wire and bolt... just a presentable model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocherphile Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Impressive........liquid cement is pretty much the only glue I use as well besides some CA from time to time. Your cutting skills w/a razor saw is almost surgical in manner. And as I have come to see, your approach is one of make it interesting w/o over doing it. A good rule of thumb, keep the eyes looking but not over whelmed. Enjoying this build immensely. A new student watching.................. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 And as I have come to see, your approach is one of make it interesting w/o over doing it. A good rule of thumb, keep the eyes looking but not over whelmed. Exactly. I like to add enough detail to make things visually interesting... enough detail for the onlooker to see and react to, but I never try to get every last nut and bolt and wire on there. It's unnecessary, and besides, literally impossible to do in scale. Even on my Pochers, I add just enough detail to make it interesting, but I try to keep myself from going overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 I like to jump around from here to there when building (don't know why, I just do!)... so I put the engine aside for the moment and decided to start on the rear end. The Aurora kit springs have U-bolt detail molded in place, but there's no corresponding mounting detail on the rear axle. Eventually I decided I like the look of the Lindberg's rear axle better, but it also has no spring mounting hardware...so I needed to remove the molded-in detail on the Aurora kit's springs because I was going to scratchbuild the spring mounting hardware. I can't find any good shots of the Stutz's rear axle, so I'm pretty much going on educated guesses here, but that's ok... remember, this isn't a contest model... all I have to do is keep Skip entertained! I cut the molded-in U-bolt detail from the Aurora kit springs with my X-acto: However, I soon realized that there is no way I could remove it completely without messing up the individual spring leaves. So I bit the bullet and decided to scratchbuild new springs using strips of styrene. The Lindberg rear axle has the driveshaft molded in place, but the shaft needed to be lengthened to fit the Aurora chassis. An easy fix... just saw off the existing shaft and replace with a longer one made of styrene rod. I did reuse the Lindberg U-joint, though. What you see here is my reworked Stutz rear end, consisting of the Lindberg rear axle (which just happened to be the identical dimension tip-to-tip as the Aurora kit's axle, so no work needed there), scratchbuilt leaf springs and spring mounting plates, U-bolts of brass rod, and the nuts that hold the U-bolts in place are made of hex-shaped styrene rod. I just drill a hole into the end of the rod, then slice off as many nuts as I need. This entire assembly will be painted red, so I assembled it first, then will paint it as a unit. Much easier than first painting all the individual components and then assembling. Hey... if there's any easier way to do something, I'm on top of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I certainly am entertained. Slightly overwhelmed, but entertained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Wow, Harry! You got a good-looking rear end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Wow, Harry! You got a good-looking rear end! Oh, come on, now... you probably say that to all the guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendog261 Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Looking great cant wait to see more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danno Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Oh, come on, now... you probably say that to all the guys... Uh, no ... not really. Just the artsy types. [insert winky-smiley joking emoticon here.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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