bobthehobbyguy Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Great work on the door. Really nice fit. The brassrod was a great idea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 Great work on the door. Really nice fit. The brassrod was a great idea.. Thanks Bob. In hindsight, trimming the sides of the floor pan (which the body rocker panels attach to) by 2mm per side would have taken the flair out of the lower body. That would make the doors flatter on their skins and not needing a twist. I'll know to look for that on my next RR... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codi Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Very impressive solution Cato. I read your description regarding the door panel matter ( don't you just hate the word "issue"?) and can truly respect the effort expended to get it to fit properly. Your conclusion as to why this occurred was interesting as well. Like you, I want to know the whys and wherefores when you run into such obstacles. Great result all in all sir. cheers, tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 I have a gift for screwing things up FIRST, then figuring them out after, Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted May 27, 2016 Author Share Posted May 27, 2016 Masking testing... This was a test to find the best materials and techniques to get a perfect color break line on the body sides of my Rolls. The test dummy was door #1 seen above. I did not fill and smooth the surface beyond 400 grit for prime. The colors are not rubbed out or cleared. I only wanted to get a clean color separation, not perfect paint. After all, this is not the door going on the car. The four fenders and trunk are perfect in the dark red and cleared, needing only final polishing cloths before assembly. Decided to shoot the brighter color first which is the lower. So first I shot the whole door with Duplicolor gray prime. After appropriate dry time (true for all the spraying steps to come) I masked the upper with first, a strip of yellow Tammy tape across the curve. I then cut a clean edge with new scalpel blade. Then masked the remainder of the upper with Friskit Paper. Shot Krylon White Prime on lower (3 coats), sanded to 600 and shot the Krylon Sweet Cream. Disclaimer; I am believer in using paints by the same manufacturer but Krylon had the color I wanted, not Dupicolor. After 2 days dry time, I removed upper masking. Found an immediate mistake; the hot Krylon overspray caused the Friskit to deposit its adhesive on the gray prime. Easily removed with Goo Gone and Isopropyl. Moral; remove masks sooner but the Kry does take longer than the Dupli to set up. Next, I masked with the Tammy 3mm curve tape shown, right at the edge of the break line. It takes the curve beautifully. Below that, I cut and taped (on the 3mm tape and on the door back) a sheet of tin foil. I then sanded the upper with 600 and reprimed with gray Dupli. I wipe all my primers with 70% Iso after sanding and before color. Then came 3 coats of Dupli dark Toreador Red, again all with adequate dry spells in about 100 degree heat. That's it. I removed the mask, this time within 2 hours of the last coat. No print through or marring with a razor edge. So this is the first real hint of where it's going with the color combinations. I found three coats of the Cream match the wheels exactly and three coats of the red match the fenders and trunk exactly. So a lot learned and I can't emphasize enough taking the extra time to test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 6, 2016 Author Share Posted June 6, 2016 (edited) A major step... I can finally report that the scratch-built door is ready for prime time. I must state at the outset that the techniques shown here were developed over much time by David Cox of Detailed Model Cars fame. He has generously shared these with me and allowed them to be shown here. Since I had the (zany) idea to scratch build my own door(s), Dave's principles were the starting points for my cut / fit / trial / error saga. Indeed, no two of his own Rolls builds have exactly the same 'parts' shown here but that is Dave's genius; he can make excellence on the fly. I have big struggles. Shown here is his idea, modified by me for the Pocher door hinges. To allow the doors to be painted without hinges, they are made removable - no hot melting them in place like Pocher wants. A door post is made of 1/8 x 1/4 styrene and the key to the whole thing is sourcing countersunk head 00-90 screws. Instead of the hinge being spread 180 degrees when the door is closed, each half of the hinges are touching - thus the need for the screws. They allow the door to rest fully closed. Seen here, I perfected (this is the fifth hinge post I've made) the post and hinge locations, hung it, then glued the door to the mounted post. Even Dave liked that idea. This gives a door that fits the body opening perfectly without filling or sanding. The next hurdle is the MMC Benz door handle and making it operational. After much measurement a hole location is drilled in the door skin so that the handle shaft goes through and correctly engages the 'cup' in the stock Pocher black steel latch - the actual only Pocher part used in this whole door assembly. Shown here is the beautiful MMC handle which comes with 00-90 shaft, chrome bezel and the all-important cam - which 'drives' the latch to open when you twist the handle. The big hurdle here is that the handle shaft must go through the door outer and have the cam soldered on in exactly the correct position to have a horizontal handle when the door is latched. The cam must ride in the latch pocket and have no slop and be friction free. Much hair lost over that one. So not wasting our old friend test door number one, just back from paint testing, I decided to try Dave's method for soldering a few mm's away from delicate plastic and paint; hopefully without torching the door or blistering the paint off. Seen here, I trail-fit a 00-90 bolt with some washers in and out and proceeded to solder a nut to the shaft. The key here is that yellow towel, soaked in in cold water to disperse the iron tip's heat - and be very sparing with solder, flux and the time you spend heating it. Milliseconds. Presto it worked first time out and as usual, Cox knows his stuff. OK an overall look at the door guts. Remember on the first door I had built up the guts on an already .060 thick structure; too thick with the window frames and inner panel attached. So to make it thinner I made a slot for the latch in the main .030 door skin and covered it with the .020 sweep cladding so that the latch got 'buried'. The head -scratcher here was getting the window frames in place without impeding the sliding latch mechanism. Some of the structure for the frame supports is seen here and it's labeled so I know what to use on the driver side door when I do this all over again (GROAN). Note the travel stop in the center of the latch and the 'cup' that the shaft and cam will (hopefully) sit in. The vertical post marked .125 keeps the latch flat in its groove. Here is Dave's big contribution to Pocher greatness; a music wire 'spring', anchored at the bottom and a fulcrum part way up to adjust the tension. I put a brass cap on the end of the music wire and had to space a .005 clearance above it so it would not bind when pushed back. Determining the location of these bits determines the spring tension; too much and you'll jump the cam out of place. Too little and the handle won't unlatch the latch when you turn it. The first shot shows it at rest in the door-closed position. The second shows my finger pushing the latch back and the travel of the latch. The handle, when soldered on, will do this. I'm using very little pressure here. Taking low-light pix with one hand makes blurry pix; sorry. The next group shows how lucky I got. Door here is shown latched on its own; no tape, friction, magnets or parlor tricks. The contours mate perfectly with the body and cowl contours, the beltline lines up and the gods are smiling - which makes me nervous. The dark line at the rear edge is not a gap; it's the test, full length .032 hinge pin which has been on and off thousands of times. This is a 'well-hung' door if I say so myself... And here is a final 'pants-down' look at the latch in action from the business end. The circle shows the latch tongue engaged in the cowl. The vertical arrow shows the mw spring. The horizontal one shows the tension adjuster which finally got cemented in the 'correct' location for operation (I hope). I repeat, this is all by the generosity and genius of Dave Cox, whose patience and generosity guided me on this ever-complicated path of advanced Pocher-building. Some of the wackiness was my own fault; scratching the doors, the Bugatti-style color sweep, Bugatti taillights, luggage rack and a leaky, sweaty engine. And - I'm nuts enough to be consider building my own, thinner, more accurate hood sections (4). Shoot me. My eyes were opened to top cutting, body-channelling, fender rotation and other gruesome acts that sensible classic builders abhor and avoid. But Cox loves discovering anyone as crazed as he is about modifying these. He just cannot find anyone as TALENTED as he while doing it. Edited June 6, 2016 by Cato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Another great update. Beautiful work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 Another great update. Beautiful workThank you Bob. Been hard at work getting the front insde of the door in primer and color(s), after which the handle goes in and gets soldered to the latch cam in back. Very sweaty proposition on finished parts but coming soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Not quite... Despite all the euphoria of having a working door, I had some issues which gave me pause. After priming / sanding / filling / painting the second door seen above many times, flaws were evident in the edge surfaces that I couldn't get out. Most likely due to the twist in the panels .With the fenders, running boards and trunk all in perfect paint, I couldn't live with it. So the decision was made to make a new (3rd time) door. After two days work, here is the 100% better result. Some new ideas were put to work and now the twist is not affecting the surface of the panels. Not home safe just yet - still have to do the spring and latch but the outside looks perfect with no filler anywhere needed. Should take paint as nice as the rest of the car. BTW, this is the 800th pic in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Will you come and work on my house build...we need more people around who give a shite about their work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Will you come and work on my house build...we need more people around who give a shite about their work Well if you want shite work, I'll come over and bring my Xacto... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 It is pretty clear by the effort you are putting into this build that you CARE about what you are doing, far more than most do with their actual day job activities. I think you and your Exacto could insulted my house better than the guys doing it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 Inner workings... With the completion of the door build it was time to retrieve an inner door panel for final fit and prep to mount.This just before the door is painted. But first to add those bits of details that make it come alive. Getting a proper look took many trial fittings then some careful drilling to install the MMC handles. They really are a great visual detail. The pleats had been angled 11 degrees to match the slant of the hood and cowl louvers. The wood door cap drops down in the rear to meet the trim around the rear seat area. All the wood finish is highly glossed but I managed to avoid the glare by the camera angle. With the handles in place, creating an arm rest was last on my list. After much trial I settled on this design of wood with a simple leather cap. With glass in the frames and the frames chromed, more sparkle and visual detail will set it off. The completed panel taped in place in the body opening. The trick was to get a close approximation of the space and relationship between the parts. This is very similar to many Gurney Nutting cars I studied. But they all have different custom made bits to the customer's wish, so there's no right or wrong. The cabin getting very close to what I envisioned: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Looking great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 I agree, fantastic work, very nice to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted July 5, 2016 Author Share Posted July 5, 2016 A working latch... Handle installed in painted door and cam soldered to the shaft. Not my prettiest soldering but a sweaty proposition that went far better than expected. Handle is solid and 1/4 turn pulls the latch back allowing opening. Sorry for focus-pocus but better pix later when the frames go on. Now that I've got the system, the other door will be much less fearsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codi Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Very slick Cato. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 The interior door panels look great. Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingIndian Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 about 35 pages ago, I saw one of the best motors ever on a model forum and thought this guy can't possibly back the rest of the build at that same level ... and good gosh almighty, here you are ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 about 35 pages ago, I saw one of the best motors ever on a model forum and thought this guy can't possibly back the rest of the build at that same level ... and good gosh almighty, here you are ... Sincere thanks you guys. Mike you nailed it; the reason this thing has taken forever. I have struggled in each area to get to a certain level of accuracy or detail. When I got to what satisfied me, I realized the next area had to not 'let down' the previous work. Then I compounded that trouble by radical alterations or scratch parts, which was a 'learn-as-you-go' process. And each affected the other.It's surely tedious to watch but it's been a great journey for me. I'm far from 'home-and-dry' with plenty of coming stuff which could ruin the previously accomplished stuff. A deep breath and I'll continue.C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted July 6, 2016 Author Share Posted July 6, 2016 An open and shut case... Hinged in place, it all fits and works. This shows the seated passenger relation to the door top. Shoulders just above the door and plenty of visibility at head height. I'll make a leather limit strap so the door won't swing quite this far. Very minor adjustments to the front window frame when it's time to close everything up with the interior panel. Arrow shows the handle shaft goes all the way through the brace of the front frame. This gives the handle more stability and prevents getting sloppy. Will snip off the excess when the upholstery goes on. Anxious for the chrome but that will take awhile... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Beautiful work on the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twokidsnosleep Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Absolutely I am wondering if my house or your Rolls will finish up first...I am pulling for the house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Still watching and still impressed. You have so much going on with this and all of it is spectacular, thanks for sharing your work.David G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 Still watching and still impressed. You have so much going on with this and all of it is spectacular, thanks for sharing your work. David G. Thanks for not giving up David! Have started the driver door and it's going much faster than the first (3) door(s). Not FAST mind you but definitely faster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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