Cato Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 IMPORTANT NOTE: To anyone contemplating this Rolls kit and using MMC PE leafspring kit and their cast bronze clevises; you should know the following. The intermediate and rear brake rods (2mm threaded-end brass) MUST be trimmed so that the clevises are nearly flush to the brass rod, with no threads showing. Shortening the rods this way is the only way to get the rear rods to not bind and clear the gas tank. The rods as Pocher supplies them work fine with the Pocher clevises which are not scale, flat sheet metal. Those clevises will thread all the way onto the rods but the MMC's are shallow blind tapped. MMC does not tell you this with the parts. I found out only after attempting to complete the axle installation and finding I didn't have enough room for the rods and levers. I managed to disassemble only the intermediate rods, shorten them and reinstall. Could have been worse. Any of you with questions, contact me for more detailed help. This is not a knock on MMC's parts. I'm sure professionals and experienced Pocher builders using these parts know this. I'm learning the hard way but it is satisfying solving big problems. Now, where is that touch-up paint?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I keep hearing from Pocher builders that "nothing can be more satisfying than a Pocher model." From what I'm seeing, I agree. "Nothing" would be a lot more satisfying to me. My heartfelt admiration to all those who do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thanks for your support Skip but you could do it just as easily as me-but it does require a change of mindset. And though this is satisfying when you finally get something right-the guys like Dave Smith (Comp) get my total admiration. I'm just an 'assembler'-I consider him a true 'builder'. He works from raw materials and drawings; I'm working with parts that need persuading and TLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry P. Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I keep hearing from Pocher builders that "nothing can be more satisfying than a Pocher model." From what I'm seeing, I agree. "Nothing" would be a lot more satisfying to me. My heartfelt admiration to all those who do this. It depends on your definition of "satisfying." For me, it's overcoming the flaws inherent in just about every Pocher kit... figuring out the fixes and making things work despite Pocher's best efforts to put up roadblocks. But I admit that building a Pocher is not for everyone. Most people will give up in frustration at some point. Assembling the wire wheels alone will drive most builders nuts. It does take a certain mindset to stick it out to the bitter end... but if you can do that, you wind up with a real showpiece, and the satisfaction that you actually made it to the end without being committed to an asylum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Having built a few Pocher's myself..., I tend to think if I'm going to do that much work to build a kit it might be easier to just build from scratch. At least that way you aren't so surprised at the things that don't fit, and even more surprised at what is considered instructions.Any kit with the caveat in the foreword that says you should expect to unbuild and rebuild ostensibly because the instructions are all over the place is likely to be frustrating.All that said, nice work on this one Cato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Having built a few Pocher's myself..., I tend to think if I'm going to do that much work to build a kit it might be easier to just build from scratch. At least that way you aren't so surprised at the things that don't fit, and even more surprised at what is considered instructions. Any kit with the caveat in the foreword that says you should expect to unbuild and rebuild ostensibly because the instructions are all over the place is likely to be frustrating. All that said, nice work on this one Cato. Thanks Mark. Your point is well taken. If I had machining skills, a full shop and a wider range of scale experience, I'd do what you and Dave do-because I'm an anal fusspot. As it is, a lot of my 1:1 experience is being called for and it's getting me through the rough spots. Some times, I have too much patience and fumbling with wonky eye sight, the fidgets and less-than 2mm fasteners adds another unhappy dimension. I'm throwing everything I've got into this one and it won't be enough for a 'stunning' model. But I'd be happy with neat, square and pleasing to the eye with adequate visual detail interest. As Harry said, un-doing a Pocher 'blacksmith' project is what they're all about. That problem solving is rewarding when it goes right. But at great cost of human life............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 No chatting just some major progress-spread over 3 posts. MMC's great workstands allow you to just flip the chassis over to work on or photo either side. These shots are mixed top and bottom. This thing is hard to photo overall so mostly detail shots. http:// http:// http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 And some more: http:// http:// http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 Next is the bronze front axle from MMC and their links and rods. It will then sit nicely in the front workstand for engine installation. Not shown but complete are the radiator / grille and steering gearbox and column. They will go in after the axle but before the engine. Hope you like: http:// http:// http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocherphile Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Looking good buddy........those stands will more than pay for themselves before you are done. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Here are the beautiful Model Motorcars bronze front axle, and their levers, brackets and bolts needed to complete the axle. The axle is far stronger than the plastic Pocher (thanks for suggesting Rick) and will not let the car's suspension sag over time. Plus there's no flash or pin marks! The PE leaf springs will carry the axle and further add to rigidity. http:// http:// Having learned a valuable lesson on the rear axle, I am spending time clearing every hole where rods and bolts pass through and chamfering every thread so the nuts all start easily. Then test fitting things like the U-bolts you see that hold the springs. Everything requires a bit of massaging. Better now than after finish is applied. http:// This is one of the prettiest 'mechanical' aspects of the car and it all shows when done, so time spent now pays a nice dividend later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocherphile Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 that is wise Cato...........think her through. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale-Master Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That is a nice piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 That is a nice piece. Yes they make beautiful stuff. Their tiny levers and clevises are also cast bronze and they're all very consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 After a great deal of trial and error, I managed to get the camber angle corrected between the MMC axle receivers and the Pocher uprights and kingpins. Their uprights are drilled for the kingpin (a 2mm x 15mm screw) at an angle to give a vertical wheel placement with the Pocher plastic axle-which has negative camber built into the axle ends. The MMC axle has no camber-the hole is drilled dead vertical in the axle ends. So when you put the Pocher uprights on the MMC axle, the stub axle (which the wheel rotates on) has huge camber-the wheels are tilted either in or out (at the tops) radically. After much horseplay bending the steel uprights many times, a call to MMC revealed that the fix is simply bending the bronze axle in a vice until true vertical or whatever camber angle you desire, is achieved. There is enough 'give' in the bronze to allow this but it's trial and error and requires mounting the wheel backing plate and uprights to see the angle reached ever time ( a freakin' lot) you make a change. Compound that with the fact that I went very cautiously once achieving the 'feel' for bending, and worked my way to very nearly dead vertical. Getting one side even with the other is also a trying task. On a real 1:1, I got to about 1 degree positive camber which I suspect will settle to zero when the whole model is full weight and tires in place. That's the plan anyway... http:// I think the Brits call this 'fettling'-I have another 'f' word I call it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Good catch. While some other sporting cars of the era, notably Bugattis, might have negative camber on the front wheels, the Rolls would be totally vertical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yup-don't want knock knees or bowl legs.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocherphile Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 U are a brave soul..........bending is allowed, but beware.........they can break if too much is applied all @ once...... . That makes for a costly mis-take....................I know! Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'm yellow so I take little bites at a time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 Inching along. Here is time spent getting zero toe and maybe 1 degree pos. camber, so it will look sturdy on its feet: http:// http:// Looking down from above, the lens angle distorts but they're straight as I can get them: http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 The tie rod is attached and the toe is set by bending (slightly) the bronze steering arms: http:// Lessons learned from the rears helped with holding the front leaf springs square and tight to each other. The 00-90 nuts on the shackles are still a fiddly exercise but just when I don't need it anymore, I get the hang of it: http:// http:// I put a shim washer atop each kingpin to take the slop out and now have a smooth side-to-side turn. And it will support the weight better. Next -test fitting all the brake linkages on each backing plate (more 00-90 stuff ) then blow apart everything for final finish. At least I know it all fits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocherphile Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Nice, very very nice..................... Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I enjoy watching your progress on this- thanks for taking the time to post. David G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 I enjoy watching your progress on this- thanks for taking the time to post. David G. Thanks for saying so and following, David. I am thinking that the subject is of near-zero interest on here---or I am... Maybe I'm giving too much part-by-part info. Maybe I should just post major assemblies less often. I have been hoping to foster some discussion and provide a 'path' for any on the fence considering building one. If I can, anyone can. Those few most familiar with Pochers (and RR's Skip!) have been the only ones to comment or offer advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjordan2 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 You've had over 3,400 views in a month. I'd say that's pretty good for a forum that has a heavy accent on American muscle. Meanwhile, there are a lot of us who are learning from these experienced comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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