gettin 'depth' in a paint job

[tbill]

hello all, after looking at a couple hundred amazing builds on here, I got to wondering how to get more 'depth' on my paint work. after much trial and error, I am to the point of getting smooth paint and good clear coats with nice shine [and almost no dust/debris], but I do not know how to get the 'depth' I am wanting. is it a matter of more clear? or a ton of buffing/polishing? or both?

I've searched and didn't really find the answer I was looking for.

here is an example of my paint work, it just doesn't have the final look I'm after,

any help is much appreciated.

[BKcustoms]

Firts off I want to say that hood looks great! Now in my experience some colors just don't look very "deep". The good thing is this can usually be solved with pearl clear or candy colors since they both literally add another layer of color for light to move around in. I hope this helps.

Billy

Edited March 30, 2014 by BKcustoms

[crazyjim]

Sure looks good to me.

[jaydar]

I would kill for that finish. If you want better the toxic 2 part stuff is probably what you need along with a hazmat setup.

Joe.

[Rocketman]

Sure looks good to me.

Me too!!!!

[1930fordpickup]

Sure looks good to me.

And better than my last paint job by far.

[Hawk312]

Ahhh, yes, one of my favorite subjects.

First I`ll back up what everyone else says... that hood looks great!! I love the color and the shine. If that is straight from the can/airbrush, that is amazing.

Also, I agree some colors just aren`t reflective. Further, what is considered "depth" can be subjective, IMO. Here are a few of what I consider my "deepest" finishes:

For all three of those, I used the exact same process as the one below. Lots of prep getting the body lines right, sanding carefully in multiple directions to avoid "grooves", color sanding before clear, many coats of clear (as many as 10! on some of them), wet sanding until there are no "valleys", and then rubbing it out with rubbing compound followed by polishing compound and then a "finish" compound.. Much time is spent rubbing with the compounds. Contrast that with the below,on which I used the exact same process:

Even with all the rubbing and polishing, IMO there is just no way to get the "depth" that I can get with the black cars, even with plenty of clear. And speaking of clear, to further confuse the issue, here are a couple without clear that appear fairly "deep" to me:

Again, in my opinion, it is quite subjective what can be classified as a "deep" finish. I feel most of it is in body prep, getting the lines straight and the panels flat, as well as lots of careful wet sanding and rubbing with the compounds.

Hope this offers some perspective.

[tbill]

thanks for the positive comments everyone.

Hawk, that is rattle can paint and clear, un sanded/buffed/polished at this point.

the pic's of the 'vette is what I am referring to as to depth, and yes, the others too, but the first few pic's are 'what's in my head' as far as what I would like to achieve ultimately.

I was under the assumption that a color sand could be 'skipped' if the paint had good coverage, was smooth and debris free, I suppose I figured the same for the clear coat as well.

so, having said that, [and already understanding the need to properly 'tune' the body to begin with], can you shed more light on the process once the initial color is on? well, I suppose what I really mean to say is, take me thru that corvette paint job, explain how to properly color sand etc., then onto the clear, the sanding of it, then what procedures and products to get the final shine/depth of the finish.

as a sub note, I suppose I should ad that none of my builds so far have seen actual sunlight, been a looooong winter here, maybe it'll look better in the sun..............

but seriously, the more info I have, the better off I am, thanks so much,

tom

[Hawk312]

I was under the assumption that a color sand could be 'skipped' if the paint had good coverage, was smooth and debris free, I suppose I figured the same for the clear coat as well.

so, having said that, [and already understanding the need to properly 'tune' the body to begin with], can you shed more light on the process once the initial color is on? well, I suppose what I really mean to say is, take me thru that corvette paint job, explain how to properly color sand etc., then onto the clear, the sanding of it, then what procedures and products to get the final shine/depth of the finish.

Great job on that hood. That is impressive for just out of the can!

For color sanding, here is a diagram from Tamiya that explains why you would want to color sand:

Now, I suppose if you already have a smooth finish before clear, you could skip that step.

So, once the color is on, to color sand, I usually start with 1000 or 1500 sandpaper, depending on the level of orange peel (more orange peel, lower #sandpaper), using warm water with just a drop or two of dish detergent. I sand until there are no "valleys." After that, I start with the clear, two mist coats 10 minutes apart followed by consecutive clear coats, with 5 being the minimum. Ideally, I use at least 6 or 7 coats to avoid sanding through during the wet sanding process. I always allow mine to fully cure after the clear before wet sanding. I know there are some who say you need to wet sand before the paint becomes too hard, but that tells me that the paint still has some gassing out or shrinking which will distort the finish. I have tried wet sanding and rubbing out a finish within a couple days of spraying, but when I come back to it a few weeks later, the finish isn`t as crystal clear as when I first rubbed it out. I will usually let mine cure for a few weeks to a month, but if you are using a food dehydrator or other form of getting it to cure in an environment above ambient temperature (I use our oven, to the dismay of my wife ), it will take considerably less time. Again, once cured, I usually start with 1000 or 1500 sandpaper, depending on the level of orange peel. Once all the valleys are gone and every spot of the body looks "flat" from different angles, I will move to 2000 grit and finally 3500. I use all 3M sandpaper. For rubbing compound lately, I am using Meguiars 105. I use that and rub until all the scratches are gone, and the finish looks just slightly dull, but still has a shine. Then I move to Meguiars 205. I am really happy with this combination. With the 205, that is where the finish really starts to pop. The more you rub with this, the more shine you will get because the abrasives actually break down into finer abrasives the more it is used. And finally, and this may not be necessary if you are using some sort of polish, I use Tamiya "finish" compound to finish up. I use separate cloths for each compound, which should be a given.

Hope all this helps!

Edited March 30, 2014 by Hawk312

[tbill]

David, yes, this will help immensely. so it looks like I need more clear coats and some elbow grease to get where I want to be. I do use a dehydrator, but have mostly used it when painting with enamel, or doing a two tone with lacquer [so I can mask and do next color quicker].

I will pick up some of the products you referenced and spend some time 'working' them on this build [after I apply a few more coats of clear to all the parts].

thanks for taking the time to help out, i'm sure i will have many more questions as time goes by.

[Hawk312]

Hi Bill,

No problem. Looking forward to seeing your future brilliant, polished work.

Also, I forgot to mention, I use Duplicolor sprays almost exclusively. From memory, the top three `vettes were all sprayed with Duplicolor "Universal Black" and clear coat. They spray with a nice pattern, and it is *really* hard to make them run.

[Miatatom]

Bill, do you airbrush your Duplicolor or is it straight out of the can?

[jaydar]

Which Dupli-Color clear do you use? I have used Perfect Match Protective Clear Coat Finish #BCL0125. Is this right one?

Thanks,

joe.

[Mike_G]

Which Dupli-Color clear do you use? I have used Perfect Match Protective Clear Coat Finish #BCL0125. Is this right one?

Thanks,

joe.

Yes, that's the one you want. Avoid DAL1695.

[tbill]

ok, started another project to try this with. this has 5 coats of clear on it [two over the stripes],

in a few more days I am going to hit with the 205 and 105 to see if I can really get it gleaming, so far this is out of the can finish. will post results.

and thanks again for the info/tips.

[Hawk312]

That looks great! What kind of paint did you use?

[tbill]

David, that is testors model master Nassau blue metallic [28128] covered in testors model master ultra gloss clear [28139].

the additional coats of clear have really helped to get the look I am after, from the 3rd coat onward it really started to get the shine/depth I was after.

how long do you wait to start buffing/polishing? as it's lacquer it shouldn't take too long to fully cure, should it?

[Hawk312]

how long do you wait to start buffing/polishing? as it's lacquer it shouldn't take too long to fully cure, should it

For Testors, Im not sure. I don`t use it enough. But I think when I did the Jim Yates car (that was testors) it seemed to dry a little faster than the Duplicolor. I think i waited 2-3 weeks if memory serves me. I try to see if I can scratch an area with my fingernail to test if it is cured. If I can "diig" into it at all, I`ll wait. Not very scientific, I know. Some use the "smell test", where when the paint is fully cured it wont smell.

[tbill]

I guess to be safe i'll wait a few weeks and see if it passes either or both of those tests