72 Charger Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Hi Ive just got a johan 1970 superbird kit and it was partly painted as a Sox & martin drag racer . I would realy like to do it as the S&M car but I dont have a clue as to where to start looking for pics of the car or cars or if I can get decals for it any help would be greatly apreaciated . Thank you Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/race_car/mopp_1010_ronnie_sox_and_buddy_martin_plymouth_drag_racing/photo_13.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Buckaroo Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Get a hold of caine440, Roger is pretty knowledgeable of S&M cars and a great guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) I have done some research on the subject and there are some pictures on the internet of the Sox & Martin Superbird...s...yes they had two different cars, but there aren't that many pictures around of them. One of the Superbirds ran in Super Stock / E (SS/E) and was one of only two Super Stock Superbird's built (Jack Werst got the other and ran in SS/EA), that car was not used for very long, just a couple of months in 1970 and it's the car the Jo-Han kit is supposed to be, the other Sox & Martin Superbird ran in C / Modified Production (C/MP) and it was used for a longer period. The SS/E car had no hood scoop and a painted blue metallic roof, the C/MP car had a Six Pack hood scoop and a black vinyl top. The engine setup was also different, the SS/E car had a 426 Hemi with a Rat Roaster intake manifold and dual 4bbl Carters as it was a Super Stock car, and the C/MP car had a 426 Hemi with Individual runner intake manifold and dual 4bbl Holley Dominators, pretty much the same setup as the Revell Sox & Martin 70 Barracuda has. Slixx has some sets of Sox & Martin decals and they had one set for the Superbird, Road Runner and GTX (#SM3/1483) but I don't know if they still have it in stock. Here are a couple of pictures of the cars. Note that none of the cars has the rearward facing scoops on top of the front fenders. The SS/E car. And the C/MP car. Edited October 27, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 Wow thank you guys thats great info . Is there anyone doing decals for it ? Im sure I can do the red white and blue but the wording is way out of my leage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubbs Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 actually, if you get ahold of any S and M decal sheet, you should be able to duplicate the bird except for the S and M supercars shield on the rear wing. i think that is on a sheet somewhere. i have plenty of sox and martin decals, pm me if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) best I have been able to gather ,,,,,,Both cars were Hemi 4 spd , with white interior. My question is , with or without console ? As far as decals you can probably get most , if not everything from the Revell 67 GTX , I have Slixx sheet #1367 and it has the S+M decal for the wing. Just be carefull, every pic I have seen of the Bird has been silver lettering, most of the cars had gold lettering on the door and quarter. so keep that in mind when doing a decal purchase This one might work as well http://www.slixx.com/s1367.htm?id=2680 I have this picture as well saved Edited October 27, 2014 by gtx6970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Sox & Martin used both silver and gold lettering on the doors and quarter panels on their cars but I don't know if any of the colors were used more than the other. The different 68 and 69 Barracuda's had both gold and silver lettering, the 70 and 71 Barracuda's had silver, the 72 barracuda had gold, the 67 Belvedere/GTX's, 68, 69 and 71 Road Runner's and GTX's had silver, the 70 Superbird's had silver, the 70 and 71 Duster's had silver, the 72 and 73 Dusters had gold and most of the cars after that like the Colt, Challenger and Omni also had gold lettering. As I said, Slixx had a decal set for the Road Runner, GTX and Superbird but it looks like they are out on that one because I can't find it, the number is #SM3/1483. Bill: Of course they were 4-speed as was most of the Sox & Martin cars...it was Ronnie Sox and Herb McCandless driving and they were the best 4-speed shifters out there. But I don't think either the SS/E or the C/MP car had any console. Edited October 27, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Norton Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) hakan is partly correct ....the original 70 super stock 'bird ran SS/F class in the early months, and S-M parts manager joe fisher drove the car.....................the ace.... ...oh, no console in any version........ Edited October 27, 2014 by AC Norton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuces wild Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I've seen one of those at the Woodward Cruise some years back... Sorry.. No pictures.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry for my ignorance but what does (SS/E and CM/P) stand for ? I know nothing about drag racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I've seen one of those at the Woodward Cruise some years back... Sorry.. No pictures.. That one is a clone, Real Bird, but not the actual S+M car ( I know who the owner is ) . Neither of the actual S+M cars I believe has been accounted for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry for my ignorance but what does (SS/E and CM/P) stand for ? I know nothing about drag racing Those are racing classes : "SS/E" = Super Stock / E (weight class) "C/MP" = C (weight class) / Modified Production These were subject to change as the NHRA saw fit (and believe me , they changed often !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6bblbird Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Sorry for my ignorance but what does (SS/E and CM/P) stand for ? I know nothing about drag racing Those letters represent the NHRA classification for those particular cars. SS stands for Super Stock. That would be an eliminator category. An eliminator consists of a group of cars adhering to the same basic rules. The E or F represent the specific class that the car fit in. Super Stock cars are classified or factored by factory shipping weight vs. advertised (or re-factored) horsepower ratings. Super Stock required all stock body panels and full, stock interior along with original carbs. For example: a light car with high horsepower would be classed closer to "A". A heavier car with a lower horsepower rating would fit somewhere down the alphabet. MP stands for Modified Production. That Eliminator category allowed for certain non o.e.m. parts to be used such as hood scoops, non original carburetors, etc. Modified Production cars were classified by actual weight vs. displacement. An A/MP would weigh less than a C/MP car providing they had the same displacement engine. Modified Production went the way of the dinosaurs in 1981. You could spend a lifetime studying and learning this stuff! WF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) hakan is partly correct ....the original 70 super stock 'bird ran SS/F class in the early months, and S-M parts manager joe fisher drove the car.....................the ace.... ...oh, no console in any version........ Can be true, but as far as I know the car was only used for a very short period around the 1970 US Nationals, and I have never seen any pictures of the Super Stock Superbird with any other weight break than E, and after what I have read both Super Stock Superbird's (the Sox & Martin car and Jack Werst car) were built with one purpose, to take out Ray Allen's SS/E 454 LS 6 Chevelle Convertible...if it's true or not I don't know. Sox & Martin had many different drivers for their cars, Ronnie Sox, Herb McCandless, Don Carlton and some more drove for them, I don't exactly know who drove the SS/E Superbird, the numbers I have seen on the car are 138 and 605. Edited October 28, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Norton Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) can be true....no, it is true. you are correct about the info regarding racing against the 70 chevelle of ray allens....and that didn't work out so well for the 'birds. furthermore, the black and white photo in front of the S-M shop that is posted in this forum, originally appeared in a 1970 magazine article, that I have around somewhere...., notes the SS/F class and joe fisher at the wheel....and that puts that to rest. I was in those staging lanes in 68, 69, 70,71, etc,etc, at WCS events and national events all over the east coast, and at the York event in '70. did you also know that in 70 tim Richards, that's right, tim Richards, ran one of these cars out of a Pennsylvania dealer named KARL GOULD Chrysler Plymouth....in SS/FA, then later in SS/EA . the superbird cars were originally classed as F cars with the street hemi when first built, but were classed to E a bit later in the season to compete with the chevelle of ray allens.....but if you're in Sweden, I don't know anybody that can see that far.............. Edited October 28, 2014 by AC Norton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Thanks guys for clearing that up for me I think I will try to model the SS/E car . One question would the underside of the car be black or white? . I do know that some race cars have white undersides to spot oil at a glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) can be true....no, it is true. you are correct about the info regarding racing against the 70 chevelle of ray allens....and that didn't work out so well for the 'birds. furthermore, the black and white photo in front of the S-M shop that is posted in this forum, originally appeared in a 1970 magazine article, that I have around somewhere...., notes the SS/F class and joe fisher at the wheel....and that puts that to rest. I was in those staging lanes in 68, 69, 70,71, etc,etc, at WCS events and national events all over the east coast, and at the York event in '70. did you also know that in 70 tim Richards, that's right, tim Richards, ran one of these cars out of a Pennsylvania dealer named KARL GOULD Chrysler Plymouth....in SS/FA, then later in SS/EA . the superbird cars were originally classed as F cars with the street hemi when first built, but were classed to E a bit later in the season to compete with the chevelle of ray allens.....but if you're in Sweden, I don't know anybody that can see that far.............. I do have a magazine article about this car and I checked it out yesterday as I don't want to give out false information, the Super Stock & Drag Illustrated July 1970 issue article says Joe Fisher was going to do the driving as you said. But the information regarding classification of the car is conflicting in this article, the text at one place says the car was built for SS/E and makes the class by less than 10 pounds...but at another place in the same article it says it will run in SS/F...a bit confusing if you ask me. I have never seen any pictures of this car with anyting else than SS/E classification on the windows and 138 or 605 numbers, or nothing at all...but on the other hand there are not many pictures of this car around...but that's not important as the car indeed ran in the SS/E class during it's short lifetime with the Sox & Martin team and we can leave it with that. Edited October 28, 2014 by Force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1972coronet Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) One question would the underside of the car be black or white? . I do know that some race cars have white undersides to spot oil at a glance. I can not speak to all race cars in regard to this ; however , for the most part . little to zero concern was given to the under-side . Super Stock (SS) was such a competitive class , that owners / builders / operators attempted to prep their car(s) in short order . One case-in-point to this : the 1968 Hurst-Hemi Dart and Barracuda . Those cars were delivered in grey primer with black gelcoat on the bonnet and fenders ; other than the engine compartment , no consideration was given bwyond the prima fascia of the car . The restored "Akron" Arlen Vanke 1968 Barracuda SS/B --one of the prettiest of the crowd-- shows primer in its door jambs and on its under-side . That's how the car was prepped back in Spring 1968 ! Get that mother out there and dominate SS/B (et seq.) ! Edited October 29, 2014 by 1972coronet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I can not speak to all race cars in regard to this ; however , for the most part . little to zero concern was given to the under-side . Super Stock (SS) was such a competitive class , that owners / builders / operators attempted to prep their car(s) in short order . One case-in-point to this : the 1968 Hurst-Hemi Dart and Barracuda . Those cars were delivered in grey primer with black gelcoat on the bonnet and fenders ; other than the engine compartment , no consideration was given bwyond the prima fascia of the car . The restored "Akron" Arlen Vanke 1968 Barracuda SS/B --one of the prettiest of the crowd-- shows primer in its door jambs and on its under-side . That's how the car was prepped back in Spring 1968 ! Get that mother out there and dominate SS/B (et seq.) ! Thanks John I guess I will do it matt black then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booboo60 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Matte works, i use flat blk on most! As stated! Gray primer is also option, other then body, i use flat color on most all race cars! Except the seats! Ill use gloss black or red as vynal an flat as trim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtx6970 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I've never see any pics of the S+M Birds bottom side,,,,but if they used stock street birds as a starting point they would be either grey or black undercoating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72 Charger Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 I've never see any pics of the S+M Birds bottom side,,,,but if they used stock street birds as a starting point they would be either grey or black undercoating Thanks for that Bill beileve me its a help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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